Tankless Water Heaters, Are they worth it!
Okay, I had a friend ask me about tankless hot water heaters and I need some feedback from anyone who might have some personal experience either as a user, installer or builder.
Here's what I have read or heard. Tankless water heaters have an endless supply of hot water (but do they provide instant hot water) and they can save energy (but do they really, if you have an unlimited supply of hot water, won't people just use more hot water?).
So what is a tankless hot water heater. Well, a tankless water heater is a major appliance that heats water as it is needed. For this reason, it is often referred to as an "on demand" water heater. The traditional storage tank water heaters keep large quantities of water heated whether or not the water is about to get used. Storage tank water heaters expend energy to heat new water as hot water is used AND storage tank water heaters also reheat water that has not been used but has cooled inside the tank. On the other hand, a tankless water heater only expends energy to heat water as it is used. The energy savings from using a tankless water heater instead of a storage tank water heater are projected to be between 15% and 40% (NOTE: this projection is 15% to 40% of the approximately 20% of your energy bill that goes to heating water, not 15% to 40% of your entire energy bill).
Okay, so now you know what it is, what about the common features of a tankless water heater? There are as follows:
- Quick Multi-unit Configuration: if you are planning on using more than one tankless water heater in a parallel configuration, look for models that are designed to be configured this way. It is possible to connect tankless hot water heaters that are not designed to be connected, but it is more challenging and more expensive.
- Energy Star: If you purchase a tankless water heater that is Energy Star rated, you know you've purchased a heater that is one of the most efficient available. What's the advantage to you? More hot water is created for less energy expended. Lower heating bills. Environmentally friendly.
- Space saving design: Tankless water heaters tend to be fairly compact. If space is an issue for you, make sure the unit you get is indeed a "low profile" unit and fits into the space you have allocated for it.
- Electronic ignition of gas: Electronic ignition sparks the combustion process, and makes it unnecessary to have a pilot light.
- Wireless remote controls enable water users to remotely control the temperature of the water that is coming out of their faucet.
- Indoor/outdoor installation: Some tankless water heaters are capable of being installed either inside or outside your home. The units that are installed outside usually require no dedicated venting.
Well, the what is solved, so why purchase a tankless water heater? There are basically three reasons to buy a water heater:
- You are tired of paying high energy bills, and have determined that a tankless water heater is a good long-term investment.
- Your current water heater is broken and it cannot be repaired.
- Your old water heater regularly fails to provide a sufficient supply of hot water.
Now let's answer the types and energy uses for tankless hot water heaters. Two types of tankless water heaters are:
- Whole-house tankless water heaters have a relatively high capacity (2 to 5 gallons per minute) and are designed to provide hot water to entire house from a central location.
- Point-of-use tankless water heaters are relatively low capacity and are design to heat enough water for one or two fixtures. They are used when hot water is needed a distance from a residence's central water heater (a shower in a bath house, a sink in a guest house).
And for the three energy uses for tankless water heaters, they are:
- Natural gas is the most common fuel used for tankless water heaters. It heats water quickly and efficiently. To be able to use a natural gas tankless water heater, natural gas has do be available to homes on your street. If you already have gas appliances in your home, running the gas to the new water heater should be straightforward. If gas is available on your street but you are not yet connected, you will need to have your plumber coordinate with the utility company to run a line into your house. This job usually requires a permit and the work needs to approved by an inspector. You will need to vent the by-products of combustion safely from your home.
- Propane heats water quickly and efficiently like natural gas. However, unlike natural gas, propane is stored in a tank on your property. Rural homeowners frequently use propane because they do not often have natural gas service but they do have the space to store a propane tank.
- Electric tankless water heaters do not heat water as quickly as gas water heaters, which makes them ill-suited to be a central water heater functioning as the primary source of hot water in a home. Electric tankless water heaters can function well in some other configurations.
So what about the available brands and who are the top 10 rated tankless hot water heaters? Splise brand comparison shopping rated the following in this order.
- Bosch
- Rinnai
- Noritz
- Paloma
- Rheem
- Titan
- Takagi
- Powerstar
- Eemax
Seisco
So there you have it, now who has experience with any of these? Thank you for providing your input!
David L. Britt
Olathe, Kansas
http://www.davidlbritt.com/
http://www.heritage.net
http://heritagerealestateteam.com
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David-Nice job as always. Lots of great information. Would you be willing to come to Southern California to replace my old water heater? I live near the beach...LOL
Marlene, hmmm, Southern California, lots of sun, beach, Okay, I'm there!! Thank you for your compliments!
This is a pretty good system. Great Post
Frank, which brand and model did you purchase? From the sound if it, it sounds like you like it a lot! Thanks for your comments!
I have two natural gas tankless hot water heaters and my sister has a propane one. Here is my experience:
I live at 9000 feet, in the mountains of Colorado. The plumber that installed it was installing lots of them that summer as he had just had training in it and was enthusiastic about them. Unfortunately he didn't realize is that there is something that must be removed at high altitudes to allow a different mixture of gas to air so that it would burn more efficiently. The first few months we had it, it was very noisy and our gas bills went up instead of down. It wouldn't get as hot as it was supposed to so we installed a new thermostat that we could set above 120'. The regular thermostat won't let it get hotter than 120 and they don't recommend anything hotter. The new thermostat resets itself back to 120 everytime you get a power outage, which we get frequently, even if just for a second. It turned out that we didn't need the new thermostat because when he made the high altitude adjustment, the gas bill went down, the noise went away (mostly) and the water got hotter. Our master bath is a pretty good distance from the heater, and an inline booster would be a good idea as I waste a lot of water clearing the cold water out of the pipes. Another plumber we know suggested a holding tank between the cold water outlet and the tank, so that we would have a supply at least warmed to room termperature and it wouldn't have to work so hard warming up our really cold water. It would have to be a pretty good sized tank though, and I don't know that it would be worth it.
My second water heater has replaced my boiler for my hot water heat system. That seems to work ok although I don't know that it is any better than a new, high efficiency boiler would have been. I doubt it was cheaper as it is a commercial system rather than the regular residential one. Both units together cost me about $7,000 to install. They are both Rinnai. The only other negative is that they are in a closet that backs to a bedroom, and are a bit noisy. I suspect it is because they have a power assisted side vent and if they were vented through the roof with no fan to assist they would probably be quieter.
My sister's propane unit is Bosch and she is happy with it. I was at her house in Arizona last week and could have showered for 2 hours and not run out of hot water. That and the economy of it are the primary reasons for using the systems.
What a great blog. We learned so much!! Keep writing.
Joanne, THANK YOU for your comments. This is really helpful!
Tim and Pam, thank you, and let me know if you have some other topic you would like information about. Thanks for commenting.
This is great information as this has been a"hot" topic in my house lately. Thanks
Harold, great testimony! Thanks for the comments!
Cheri, "hot" is what it's about!! Hope it all turns out without you getting a bath!
Thanks for sharing the information. I have heard of it but do not know anyone who has it here.
Howdy David
Every time I read one of your posts I get to learn someting.
Keep up the good and helpful info.
Have a good one
Gita, you are welcome, hope it helps!
Dale, thank you, I appreciate your comments and I truly hope benefit is gained!
I now have a total of 5 Takagi tankless water heaters installed both at my home and at rental properties here in Chicago. They are now working well, but it did require some effort to get everything working properly. I've put up a page about installation problems with tankless heaters - Paragon Home Inspections Evanston / Chicago IL here.
"Electric tankless water heaters do not heat water as quickly as gas water heaters, which makes them ill-suited to be a central water heater functioning as the primary source of hot water in a home. Electric tankless water heaters can function well in some other configurations."
That is not true anymore. Electric has come a long way and can provide whole house hot water and very fast. In fact, I have an electric tankless that provides hot water for my radiant floor heat AND domestic hot water for the whole house. We only use it in the winter as my Solar Hot Water heater provides our hot water in the summer.
I personally think the conventional water heaters out to be phased out and replaced with the tankless ones; that is, if we are really serious about conserving energy, etc.
The heaters have elements in them. When demand is high, all are on. When demand lessens, one or two of them are on. You really will have an endless supply of hot water. If the water in the pipe between the heater and the facet is cold at the time you turn the facet on, that water won't be hot until the new water from the heater gets to the end of the line where you are.
If instant hot water is important to you, you can install a recirculating pump on the hot water side of the line, and water will always be hot the moment you turn on one of the hot water facets.
David... Nice post with lots of good info. We're just starting a new traditional neighborhood development and one of my builders told me last week that he is installing tankless heaters in all the homes he builds in the neighborhood. They used to be a bit more expensive - even a year ago - but the city is now giving incentives to builders such that they are about the same price as tank heaters. A couple of interesting additional things I've learned though: 1. Your plumber needs to be trained on the system and familiar with the installation. 2. To make the tankless work correctly and efficiently, it needs a 2-inch gas line rather than a standard 1-inch which normally feeds the house, and 3. There are now units available with remotes or wall-mounted switches that you operate when entering a room, e.g., bathroom, which direct instant hot water to that room. That saves wasting water by having to wait while the cold water is run out of the pipes. In fact, I understand that now this can even be accomplished with a room motion detector.
Is that pretty "George Jetson", or what!
We are considering the Bosch propane for our master bath addition. Thanks for the info.
Depends on the heater - generally, gas fired units can be built with higher capacities than their electric counterparts. For example the gas fired Takagi T-M1 at my 2 1/2 bath room house supples plenty of hot water even when the dishwasher or washer is running.
DAVID: I haven't had any experience with the tank less but I do know that when I have to replace my water heater will go tank less!!
Keep these in mind for your VA buyers! Remember, you can ad up to $3000 for energy efficient improvements to a home being purchased with a VA loan! I've done this with a few buyers and it's easy!
Tina in Virginia