I can't say I like the Mortgage people who are there right now.
Look out!
Here Comes a RANT....
Case in Point:
Here's a wonderful piece of trash. This was a quote request where the Walnut Creek homeowner was looking for a real rate quote on a 30 yr. fixed mortgage.
This bucket of loan officer scum (not harsh enough) used the platform to spam this homeowner on his companies biggest profit producing product. The Home Ownership Accelerator.
or if you like a little outside reading, here's 100,000 pages on the topic
Let's look a little deeper into his profile...
As Borat would say, "very nice!"
Brent is a Quote Farmer.
He's a Scammer, a Spammer, a Liar and Cheat. He and so many others like him, are the reason my industry holds such a poor image in the public eye today.
Chances are he has hired people to blast out as many un-quotes a day as possible.
Brent isn't alone. Right now, Zillow is crawling with Bait and Switch Artists.
Some look like they are a single person (like Brent) but are in fact a corporation. If enough people complain about Brent, they just replace Brent with John. When John is retired they have Pete, and so on.
I know I'm being harsh on Brent. I'm pissed as hell (pardon my language) that Zillow is going to allow Brent and the others to continue. And they will.
They believe it's up to the consumer to decipher the difference. I hope they do. In the end, Zillow will be just fine. Just like bad sellers on eBay haven't brought down that system.
Ok, I'm done Ranting. Back to work.
Mike, what happened to the background check they were doing to ensure the players were legitimate?
Fake license numbers? give me a break.....I love the concept, but havent signed up for fear of this very thing happening. I dont think its a rant at all as I believe that we need to somewhat police ourselves to improve the reputation of the industry as a whole.
Mike,
It's sad that Zillow can't pack there corner with good, qualified, mortgage brokers and lenders. Heaven knows they're out there. Why settle for the scum? Doesn't make sense.
Mike, Thanks gfor the rant. I signed up with Zillow last week but haven't been approved yet. I am excited to see what it is about. Hopefully, it is not full of Brents.
To stand up for Zillow - I had a conversation with David G (Zillow) over on Lenderama.
Zillow doesn't want to accidentally eliminate any good brokers. Much like we believe in the innocent until proven guilty, I think that's the right stance for Zillow to take.
How do you stop these quote mills?
How do you stop the Bait and Switch - before it happens?
Everyday I work on my Zillow Mortgage Plan. I strongly believe in it. I really do.
Everyday, I allow someone like Brent to bring me down. I just have to let it go.
Sorry for the rant.
To stand up for Zillow even more...
David G just called, he wanted to let me know...
Go ahead and ask me again why I like Zillow! David G. you and Zillow get two thumbs up!
You make me proud to be a Zillow Mortgage Guy!
The fact that it was halted is AMAZING!I had really figured we would RUN from Zillow fo rthis very reason - might reconsider...
Mike, That's awesome that David G stepped up to the plate so quickly. I'm truly impressed!! I'm liking Zillow more and more every day.
Mike,
Thanks for the post, and I'm amazed that David from Zillow was so quick to comment. Your blog on AR has the power to move mountains!
Mike in Tucson
Thank you so much for this post. In the less than a week that this program has been in place, we owe a lot to people like you for not only catching shisters like this, but also for finding bugs in the system. With over 8000 loan requests in just a few days, we know we are on to something the public wants, so we are dedicated to making it as good as possible.
I have to give props to David G too. I was just in Seattle this week and talked to him. The high level of service and quick response times he has given this week looked like it had come at the expense of not sleeping for the past seven days!
Eleanor - Once again, I really think this presents a great opportunity for both sides.
BB - I was impressed as well. I think he's watching me ; )
Mike in Tucson - Nope. He saw my outside blog, Mike's Minute He called because he had left a comment and knew there was comment moderation and wanted to let me know. I'm still very impressed. He may have seen the post here too, but didn't comment, which is why I copied and pasted his comment here.
Sara - I give props to the whole organization. You included. I know David G has a last name, do we have to keep calling David G? LOL
When we were on the phone I rushed him off because I could hear all his other phones going off in the background. He sounded busier than me.
He does? :)
At Zillow, most people's email addresses are their first name and last initial. I would guess that this is where it started.
Mike, thats awesome that he responded so quickly. I am on Zillow now; I really like it. At first I was putting disclaimer information in the additional info field stating that "while these are the lender fees that you can expect to see your actual closing costs will be higher once all third party fees are calculated and included". I was doing that until I noticed that Zillow already incorporates that into the quote by adding to the end of it that you will need those lender fees and any additional third party expenses (they word it differently, but it is the same). Overall, I like the service though no one can deny that it does have some quirks that need to be worked out.
More zillow frustations..."lurkers" and "recruiters" submitting false loan requests to establish rapport with LO's giving quotes to what they think are legitimate borrowers.
Until zillow makes it harder to get a quote AND give a quote, this process is fatally flawed. I also don't think that it is valuable to have LO's see what else is being quoted to the potential borrower.
It has been a "fun" experiment, but I'm losing interest rapidly.
Rich -
Please let me know who they are and I'll take care of it. If you have proof; all the better. We expect borrowers to be honest. As the newness wears off, the tire-kickers will lose interest and we're already seeing that happen and the rate of quotes increase as a result. I do know from speaking with buyers that Zillow is the only online mortgage application many serious borrowers will use thanks to their anonymity on the system.
David, I'll try to shoot you an email, don't want to falsely implicate folks on a blog.
Mike,
That's very relevant info on this mortgage marketplace. Zillow seems to have its hands full with scammers and whatnot, at least for now. I'll wait and see how things shape up before joining.
I too am hoping that Zillow takes a more pro-active approach in weeding out the bad apples- and a good way to start is VERIFYING the people leaving feedback. How do you do that without a separate department dedicated to verifying closings or something???? I don't know. But something has to be done. I LOVE the guys with feedback already though. Yep, application to closing in 48 hours, or your money back! :)
As I stated somewhere else, if people want to work for free, or go to sleep at night a liar, I'm not going to get worked up about it. The Zillow system is made to chuck all those types out, but it will be a long, frustrating wait no doubt.
I started making fun of the liars though saying '5.5%, no points! I'll pay your closing costs out of my own pocket! And I'll cook you dinner for a month! Yeah!' Hopefully some mortgage requestor will get a kick out of it and give me a call. It's copyrighted, btw... ;)
Fun times ahead. Good luck Rich.
I am trying a different approach. I seem to get my best leads on bankrate when i am one of the highest in rate.
That seems real easy to do on zillow.
I myself like the service.I have been using it for about a week. Yes I know I'm up against the guys that are quoting 5.25% zero points and no fees for a $900,000 loan. But from the borrowers I've talked to, they catch on real fast that these types are doing the old bait and switch. Tha fallout I hate to deal with, is that by the time they call either myself or someone else with a legit quote, they are all pissed off.
I believe that "local" restrictions would help out a great deal. AT LEAST lenders that actually reside in the state that they are offering a quote for. There is too many errors being made by lenders that don't know local loan limits, declining market zones, etc. I think this would go along way to improving Zillow Mortgage.
Mike, I was very excited about the Zillow mortgage program. But there are some troubles that are going to spoil the system if they are not addressed. You are 100% right that Barry will become Dave will become Don and so on. No one closed a loan in 2 days. In my local area I've noticed a guy who has been quoting on loans, as much as 200bps lower than my best investors PAR rate. He has feedback, actually 2 full of indrustry jargon. Hummm, think those are fake?
How could this be fixed? Zillow could do spot checks on the mortgage market place pricing. Contact a member and say "So on quote XS1299-2223 you quoted 6.125% and $X in fees. Please show us a rate sheet or other documentation which would enable you to honor that quote." Not every loan, but here and there. Make the penalty severe like either honoring the quote if the customer wants it, or getting the boot. Paying 4 points to live up to a baloney quote will wake up a couple of these shylocks pretty quick and the word out there will be that Zillow won't put up with it.
On the comments, set it so that only those who have closed a loan can post to the score, but others can leave comments. That way you can see all the baloney but it won't make the shylock look better with out actually doing a loan. Require a HUD be faxed in to open up the score feature with the broker. I'm sure Zillow could whip up the technology part of this pretty easily.
I want to see this work, it is a great idea for both the mortgage professional and the borrowers. Quoting borrowers fake rates is nothing they can't get at BankRate already and will diminish Zillows great brand name.
I am glad to see that Zillow is regulating this. People like Brent give us all a bad name!
Mike nice RANT. I am with you 100%. The problem is the ability to notify the masses. Unfortuneately we ALL get side tracked here and loose our focus. Remember obstacles are what we see when we take our eyes off our goals. Control what you can man.
The people posting on Zillow mortgage are rate shoppers. I for one do not go after this market. They will leave you at the drop of a hat. I concentrate more on establishing value with my referral partners and offering a very competive rate. Go for the quality not the quantity.
"He's a Scammer, a Spammer, a Liar and Cheat. He and so many others like him, are the reason my industry holds such a poor image in the public eye today."
I see David G. stepped up...that's gotta be a win for the good guys and our public image.
Ricardo - It is. I think what Zillow is doing and what David G is doing is great. Zillow isn't proactively watching out for slime, they can't. They want the borrowers and LO's like us to do that for them. That might be fine, but as I was placing my quotes last night I realized I never looked at the 15 - 20 quotes below mine. I don't have time to find the slime. How about you?
As for the Borrowers? As Brian Brady pointed out, the unethical bait and switcher might have a negative borrower rating but the Rate Shopper is going blow right past that and focus solely on the Rates and Fees. Consumer Tunnel Vision.
Mike,
I must ask... If you are the only legitimate lender in a sea of garbage, why do you want to compete in the garbage pool? Zillow's Mortgage Marketplace is just that.
You will always have the unscrupulous lenders offering tons of bait and switch. No one will every take you seriously becuase you will be the highest in fees and rates. So you spend all the time sending quotes and getting nothing in return for those quotes. (other than a potentially negative rating by these anonymous borrowers.) It's one step BELOW being a phone rate quoter...
I gave them a shot. I didn't want to, but I wanted to be fair to the service. And my opinion of Zillow was reinforced. They don't care about reality or anything real. They just want traffic to sell ads... period.
I'd let the garbage swimmers play in that pool. Real professionals like yourself should focus on working with real clients that want real help and real guideance. You are worth so much more than Zillow deserves!
(Disclaimer: I still have a profile on Zillow's mortgage marketplace as a free backlink, strictly for SEO purposes. If they use us for free content to sell ads, why not use them to get that free incoming link and get some free Google Power?)