I love to hear the first part... that someone found me on Activerain. But the second part, about can our agent do this? Oh, I hate to hear that, because I usually know that it isn't good, and more than likely, it is going to be a legal question that I can't answer anyway.
Well, today's question that was brought to me was this...
Myself: Thank you for calling this is Todd, how can I serve you today?
Seller: Todd, my name is blank and we have a home for sale and we found your name on Activerain.
Myself: Great, how can I help today then?
Seller: We have a question for you about our agent and if he can do what he did or not.
Myself: Well, more than likely this is going to be a legal question and I may have to refer you to the state, I can get you that number.
Seller: Ok, but let me run by our scenario with you and see what you think.
Myself: OK, shoot!
Seller: Were a FSBO and this agent came to us before we were ready to list. Finally, my wife and I decided we needed the help of an agent and this guy seemed to be helpful prior to listing our house, so we thought we would give him a shot.
He was good, did everything we expected and promised he could have our home sold in 90 days, as we requested, because we have another home under contract contingent upon this home selling.
So, we gave him a 90 day listing and after 60 days we had about 15 showings, but no offers and he suggested we lower the price and sent over a price reduction form, which I agreed to discuss with my wife. While discussing doing this we got a call for a showing the next day, and decided let's see what happens before we lower the price. Then we got another call, nd then another for a showing. In two days we ended up having 10 showings. We thought we had hit the lottery and decided not to lower the price just yet.
Myself: I could understand that and I wouldn't have either with that much activity.
Seller: Exactly! After 48 hours we got 3 offers, all lower than we were willing to take. But the last one had a multi offer addendum and a little note at the bottom that said, this is just in case our offer isn't the best already, but being we are offering $2000 more than your present asking price, we really hope ours is the best. My wife and I just looked at each other and said "WHAT?" It was actually $18,000 less than our asking price and we decided to head to the internet to read that the price of our home had been lowered the day before by $20,000 and the description line said, "Seller's desperate $20,000 price reduction, we need to sell or we will lose our new home!"
We couldn't believe what we were seeing, we hadn't signed the price reduction yet and if we had, we still hadn't discussed how much we were going to lower it yet, if we did.
So, my question to you Todd, can our agent do this without a signed document from us?
Myself: Well, no he really can't and I would call the Oregon Real Estate Agency and tell them what you told me. They can tell you exactly what you need to do and who you need to talk to. I'm sorry I really couldn't be of more help other than giving you the phone number, but that really is a question for the Oregon Real Estate Agency Legal department. I wish there really was more I could do, but here is the number it is 503-378-4170 or you can e-mail them at orea.info@state.or.us and please keep me informed of what happens.
If you are a buyer or seller and have any questions about real estate, please don't hesitate to call the Oregon Real Estate Agency, they are there to protect consumers. If you would like to ask me a question about real estate, I would love the chance to sit down and talk with you, educate you, and hopefully build a friendship!
Todd Clark - broker
Kastings & Associates
Phone: (503)524-9494
Fax: (503)622-8739
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Man oh man oh man -- that's some serious bad juju for that agent. They're gonna wish they'd stuck to selling used cars when the state gets through with them!
Todd - That is a terrible story. I get calls like this sometimes, too, and I am always happy to listen and refer them to the proper authority. However, with a name like "blank", they had to expect it would happen. ;-)
Todd - sounds like he is in big trouble. Scary out there! Your answer was perfect.
Oh my, that agent likely may have just written a $20,000k personal check -- at least he is in a world of trouble for sure.
That is really scary stuff. That agent can be in big trouble.
This scenario makes me cringe and say "ouch!" I hope that they follow up on your recommendation and keep you informed just the same. It's an unfortunate scenario to know that the Agent couldn't wait until all the appropriate paperwork was submitted.
(By the way, I don't know if you got my email but I didn't receive your submission. Let me know...)
Todd,
Handled like a true consumer advocate!!! Thanks, Fran
Todd, you did the right thing by referring them to your State real estate agency. Making changes to a listing agreement without the Seller's approval is not good business.
Unreal! I hope they follow through and complain about this agent. Yikes!
Unbelievable Todd - you just never know what scenario you are going to hear when someone calls about real estate - You handled this like the pro you are and I won't be surprised if you end up with the listing somehow.
Todd, great job handling that caller. I do feel bad for them, the agent on the other hand, I don't feel so bad for!
Todd, why to do the right thing! I am sure when it comes time for these sellers to find a new agent - which I am sure will be soon you will be the agent. You can also bet that if they know anyone buying or selling you are the agent they are talking about! What a scary story!
Ouch.. Stories like that hurt us as collective agents. It also reminds us why we do the right thing and wait for the signature. I sometimes call before input and ask if there are sure. It is hard to go back once the reduction is made. It is a critical and important part of the transactions. Great Job handling the call.
WOW! There's one agent who shoulda made the decision to get out of the business before. Now he can get out but it'll cost him an extra 20 grand. I hope the state wrings him out. Very professional response on your part. Nice job.
Todd - Sounds like somebody is in big trouble. Why did they call you?
Bad situation all around but thanks for sharing that with us. I just hate to hear about this stuff though because you realize that there are a lot of unprofessional agents out there giving the true professionals a bad rep! I hope many learn great lesson from this experience, namely the bad agent!
Todd, you handled the situation quite well... and I love to hear that your name was found here on AR! Great job.
wow wow wow. That is unbelievable! I wonder what the listing agent's excuse was. 'Oh, I thought you DID sign it, my mistake'. What a winner!
UH WOW! Did you give them the board number too? I would have given both division AND board!
Todd, good work not getting sucked in. Let the proper people get involved and be there the next time so they are in better hands. Thanks for story.
Todd,
That agent should be in deep trouble! That is not keeping the clients best interest in mind!
That agent will probably be in very deep doo-doo, but obviously he was right. His recommended price IS the number necessary to sell the house. If only the seller had priced the property correctly in the first place, it never would have come to this for either of them.
Kent - I agree, that is if the sellers follow through. I heard of all who complain to any board only about 5% actually do everything they need to for an official board review.
Jason - HA HA, I wasn't going to give names, I'll let the agent give his own information out, if he wants to...But, he isn't an Activerain member, I already checked.
Virginia - I hope he gets in big trouble, he should be!
Bob and Carolin - The sad part is more than likely his E&O insurance will and he will just pay a deductible.
Randy - As he should be!
Ricardo - I didn't get your e-mail, but I did just resend it. I guess he didn't want to wait, knowing he was about to lose a sale if he didn't get some buyers in the door.
Fran - Thanks and hopefully they won't lose out.
Michael - And illegal! I'm hoping he hasn't done this in the past, but I'm guessing he had.
Todd,
I am glad I am not in that agent's shoes! He definitely did not have the right to lower the price without the consent of the owners (in writing). This shows, once again the importance of pricing properties correctly from the beginning.
unscrupulous agent to say the least, what were they thinking or looks like they weren't
Todd, I found this fascinating to read, along with the comments. I guess I'll play Satan's defender (devil's advocate) again. We're all basing our opinion on the premise that the information the seller conveyed was factual.
I like to give the other party the benefit of the doubt, since there's three sides to every story. Granted, the agent erred by prematurely publicizing a "new" price -- in addition to the insulting commentary. Always get it in writing. Perhaps the agent did receive an e-mail instructing the price change, may be not on the official MLS form (still a potential boo-boo).
We've all known industry professionals who have played the gray areas. The same goes for sellers and buyers. Superlative work all the way around.
Todd... Wow that takes a lot of $%@ to do that. NO, NO, NO.
Todd, that is definitely a no no, but I think Andrew is right that there might be another side to the story? Hopefully the seller will get to the bottom of it? I do think it is a great thing for you to put your real estate commission's info front and center to properly protect the consumer!
Interesting blog post. Problems such as this sure give the industry a bad-wrap. I hope you can post a follow-up soon.
Todd, just to clear up one factual item. How is this person licensed?
As I read the Oregon legislation, the term "agent" does not mean a real estate agent.
In your jurisdiction, if the person the consumer refers to as an "agent" is licensed as a broker employed by a principal real estate broker, then shouldn't the consumer call the principal real estate broker?
Of course if person you refer to is a real estate broker conducting professional real estate activity as a sole practitioner, then the Oregon Real Estate Agency would be the place to go.
Or am I wrong about this?
Monika - We will see what happens.
Judy - I would like to think I did, but I really couldn't decide if this person really did what they did or not as like others have said, I only heard one side of it. That is why I referred them to the Oregon Real Estate Agency.
Tony or Darcy - We will see what happens, if they did what the seller said they did, then hang ‘em high!
Jo - I'm guessing they may just stay put or go back to selling it For Sale by Owner, but we will see. I didn't even take their name or number as I didn't want to get involved in any way.
Debbie - I saw one where they did that, they had the price reduction, then tried raising it again as if no one would notice.
Gene - We will see, if he did what has been implied, then he is toast!
Larry - They called me because they didn't know who to ask or contact and when they searched for Beaverton Oregon Real Estate questions, apparently one of my Activerain blogs came up. (Found that through "MyBlogLog")
Seraina - I know you have been in for a few years now yourself and have seen a few of these agents, but they will be gone sooner than later. Grey area isn't an option anymore!
Terrie - ME TOO! I thought that was pretty cool!
Jennifer - That is for the real estate agency to decide, but my guess is he thought they would sign it that night and not wait.
Renee - I didn't want to get involved any more than I already had, I don't need another agent calling me and telling me that I interfered in their listing.
Tom - That is why I tried to get them off the phone as quickly as possible after finding out what the problem was and didn't take their information. I know a lot of times, it is just a miss-understanding, but if everything was on the up and up this agent will be in trouble.
Wow! jumping the gun is rarely a good idea. Especially when doing so can land you in hot water. Way to handle the situation Todd! A lesser man may have resorted to degrading the realtor to take the clients, or some other gutter tactics. Well played!
Mary - I agree, but I couldn't tell them that, now could I?
Margaret - I think he was just trying to get the listing with them being a For Sale by Owner and hoped he could get it sold at the price they were asking as FSBOs.
Cynthia - Yes it does!
Michael - I'm not going to decide that, but I will let the real estate board do it for me!
Ann - We are not supposed to either, but we change it, not them. So we can change it and then get the documents later and the only way they know if we have the document is if they ask.
Andrew - I agree, that is why I didn't want to pass judgment on this agent and let the real estate board decide if they were in the right or wrong.
Debbie - LOL, Bad doggy!
Audrey - I sure hope there is another side to the story, I hate to hear of things like this as it gives our whole industry a bad reputation.
Dave - I hope so also, I really want to hear the agent's side of the story.
Larry - We really don't have agents here in Oregon anymore. You are either a broker or a principle broker. As a broker, you do work under a principle broker unless like you said you are a sole practitioner. I didn't want to get into what the name of the company was or the agent, it would have been just asking for trouble. SO, I passed them to the real estate agency board.
Jonathan - I wasn't about to cross that line, I don't need to be in front of an ethics board, I like having my license.
I value my clients and I value my license - if this is true, this agent didn't value either. I can't imagine jeopardizing his entire career like this. I realize it could be, but I hope it isn't true.
Is the sound of laughter good enough for a comment?!?! One tremendous mistake, probably proceeded by several others. Just for fun, and sake of argument, I wonder if the agent ran the comps correctly, or if the sellers were adamant to set a certain price in the face of the numbers, and it all led to this?
It's kind of neat that people see you as the "go to" person. I can't believe that agent did that, shame shame!
It's ME :)
I had to blog about it. They're threatening to blog about it if I don't :)
What was this post about? I forgot :)
TLW...ROAR!
Hi Todd - good job on the way you handled this. If this happened as the sellers claim it did, and if they call the real estate commission, that agent will get his comeuppance, hopefully. They should also call the local board and file a grievance against that agent, assuming what they told you is the truth.
I periodically get calls from the public and from other agents in my area asking about a variety of things, and we have to be very careful to not pass judgement because we're only hearing one side of what may, or may not, have actually taken place.
Ann
Wow thats crazy, can't believe the Agent did that, I know desperate times call for desperate measures but we still have to be ethical in doing so. Great read.
Sounds like that guy is going to get in a lot of trouble! Great post.
I get calls like this too, and the advice you gave it excellent. It's so hard to just bite your tongue! Yesterday I was with a businessman I see regularly. He pulled me aside to ask questions about the agent who has listed his properties for sale. He was questioning her marketing tactics, and some of the things she said to him. She just got one of his houses under contract yet he wasn't happy with how she handled it. He wanted me to tell him what I would do if I listed the property and was in that situation. I told him, But you picked her as your agent, not me. You need to either call her broker to discuss it with him, or call your attorney. When your listing expires, I'll be glad to discuss how I would market your property.
In reality, I think she screwed the marketing/negotiating up, but what could I say?
Here's the kicker. Today on the hot sheet I see he gave her more of his listings! Unbelievable.
Dawn - I hope it isn't true either!
Joe - Either way, if this is true, you never do something until you have it in writing.
Lindsay - The best part is they wouldn't have known about me if it weren't for Activerain! But, I wish they would have looked on the net before hire the other agent and hired me first! Oh, well!
TLW - I forget too, are you trying to hi-jack this - lol (AHHHH, GATOR)
Ann - That is why I didn't really say anything good or bad about the other agent and just gave them the information as quickly as I could. I didn't want to expand on it beyond the fact that they really should have, but I'm not the person to decide that.
Justin - They should never get that desperate or you are in the wrong business!
Ryan - If he did what he is accused of, yes he will be!
Todd - It's unbelievable, how could the agent think he would get away with something like that?
This agent is in a world of hurt once your board gets a hold of him. Agents like that tarnish our entire industry. What a shame...
desprite times...... probably his only listing to, Shady shady
That's pathetic. Clowns like that make all real estate professionals look bad. You should post the agent's name...
Good answer for people in trouble, without getting yourself into trouble.
Flat shady. It would be fun to hear the excuses... But, it's still shady.
Ummm...OUCH! Well, at least they know why they got all that activity. I can't believe the agent just reduced without the form! I hope everything works out well for them!
Good job handling the caller/seller. It is pretty scarey their agent took that position.
Interesting story! 1.2 millions REALTORS and most are good but it's sad that a few do things like this.
Todd- You sure get some doozies.......I am shocked at how that agent thought it OK to do that. Your response was perfect.
Todd, you've got me seeing stars. Congrats.
This agent might be related to the agent from my post earlier in the week "the devil is in the details." Let's just see how badly we can screw up and get away with it. I hope they do go to the board and that the agent finds himself a new profession.
WOW! That agent had pretty big cahunas! How in the world did he think he could do that without the signed form. Recipe for disaster right there!
Todd - that's some scary stuff! I can't believe that agent! No wonder we sometimes have a bad reputation! You handled yourself very well..just like you're supposed to! (no surprise to me) Congratulations on your well deserved star!
We have this kind of "escalator" clause tacked onto a lot of the contracts we write or see on our listings. It sounds like their agent might be on both sides of the transaction, something that can get anyone into trouble pretty easily.
Wow. I'm not sure what the agent was thinking.
I'm sure hes out of real estate by now or at least looking for a new office.
Todd ~ What is WRONG with some people? This is exactly why those in the real estate profession have such a bad reputation - and the good, ethical individuals have to clean up the messes left behind.
Erica - It was so hard to bite my tongue! I wanted to say so many things, but it really wasn't in my best interest to do so or I could have been crossing a line myself.
Maria - If he did what he accused of, he didn't!
Ben - I agree and that is why I want to have them out of the business! I know times are tough, but that is no reason to cross the line of good business!
Evan - I hope so or there could be others!
Andrew - I don't know it and I wasn't about to ask, didn't even want to know the sellers name because I didn't want to find out before the state decided he was guilty or not.
Russ - Thank you.
Lane - I am going to be watching our Oregon Realtor newsletter to see if something like this pops up under disciplinary actions!
Oh My Goodness, in my state, which there are more lawsuits than people, that agent would be in court and not only have to pay the owners the price reduction, the agent would be liable for more!
What makes me crazy is that these types of agents give our profession a bad name and gives the public more reasons to distrust us!!!
Christy - I'm guessing it is going to get worse before it gets better. I'm pretty sure they are not going to accept the offers, but at the same time, that means they are going to lose the home they are trying to buy.
Pam - I'm just hoping it was a mis-understanding, but, I'm not sure how it could have been. No signature, no price reduction.
Dick - And even sadder is this is the ones the public remembers!
Kathy - It has been awhile since I've had something bad or weird happen to me, I was hoping that someone else was starting to get them. Looks like they just gave me a break from them.
Michael - ME TOO!
Cindy - I hope they find a new profession soon!
Bob - That is some pretty big ones!
Linda - Thanks!
Patricia - I got a call from someone claiming to be from the agency today, but the number didn't match the one I have on my phone. I told them I didn't know anything about it besides what the seller told me and that I told them they should call the state and ask.
Eric - I don't know if he is or not since I didn't ask his name or company. I didn't want to get involved. But the seller hasn't called me back yet!
Darleen - Exactly!
Jean - I would love to see these sellers be able to sell their home for the lesser amount and have the agent pay the difference.
You have a great memory to actually remember everything that you said in the conversation which seemed like a lot to me. I actually got a call from someone yesterday. She said that she found out that when she got to closing that there was a tax litigation on the house. Now she is trying to get her earnest money deposit back. To cut a long story short,I told her to she needs to talk to the broker of the office. And if she is not getting the help that she needs,she needs to call Department of Consumer and Regulatory Affairs. And we wonder why some people just dont trust real estate professionals anymore? Great post Todd.
Lanre - I wrote this post within 2 minutes of taking the phone call, so it was pretty easy to remember what I said. But, it is so important not to give legal advice, but give them the contact information of the people who can help them. It is a shame when someone like this gives the rest of us a bad name and when I run in to a FSBO that says they won't use another agent because of their experience with just one!