It's been quite the day. I've put a lot of miles on my car today.
The morning started out innocuously enough. I took advantage of a few stops I had to make in a certain part of town to look around for possible rentals for a tenant. I had checked the MLS and knew what was listed but I sometimes find FRBO's willing to cooperate with an agent.
I found a property that seemed just right. It looked vacant and had an agent's For Rent sign in the window. It was odd that it also had another brokerage sign on the lawn but it would not be the first time a property switches from one broker to another and the first broker lags picking up his sign.
I called the agent on the rental sign (Agent B) and found out the details. I asked to preview it since I was there and he gave me the lockbox code. The place looked perfect for my tenant and since my office is so far away I decided to see if she could come right over. She did. She loved the place and we decided to go forth with our plans to put in an application to lease.
I got back to my office and looked the property up on the MLS. UH-OH. This home is not listed for rent. It's only listed for sale. With the other agent (Agent A). At the other brokerage. I called Agent B and left him a message. I called Agent A and left her a message. I needed to find out what was going on.
They both called me back just a little while ago. Agent B tells me to put in the rental application and he'll present it to the owner. I pointed out the little problem I had with the fact that the home was already listed with Agent A. He tells me the seller said it was OK for Agent B to rent it as she didn't have a listing agreement with Agent A. I suggested he have her contact the brokerage and pull the listing off the MLS. He insisted on the fact that there would be no problem. I told him I'd get back to him.
Agent A, meanwhile, tells me she knows about the owner's sign in the window. "Uh, no, you're not understanding me. It's not an owner's sign in the window. It's another agent's sign that's in the window. His sign is in the window and your sign is on the lawn." I even go as far as letting her know that I was given a lockbox code and toured the property already. She asked me what the code was. I told her. The silence on the other end of the phone line told me she was seriously thinking about doing damage to someone. She was able to summon up a few words "that's my code." I replied, "well then they're using your lockbox to show the listing for rent."
She thanked me for calling her and told me she would call me tomorrow with a reply as to whether her seller wants to rent to my tenant and that she would get to the bottom of this.
I sit her and wonder where the closest Happy Hour is. I need a stiff one and I don't even drink.
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A Florida Real Estate Broker specializing in residential properties in Miami-Dade County, specifically the Village of Palmetto Bay and the Redland. Hablo Español.
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Just when we think we've heard it all another story comes along. Good grief!! Since you don't drink, just imagine a nice margarita in your hand and perhaps you'll feel better. Good luck to you and your client!
Kris - good grief is exactly what I was thinking. I rolled my eyes and thought "just when you thought it was safe to go back in the water...." A margarita actually sounds good. Maybe =)
That's sad. I've seen homes in the MLS listed for sale with two brokers. The times overlapped.
We've got several for sale/for rent with the same broker.
We've got several for sale or for rent.
The only thing missing in your case is a "For Rent By Owner".
Maybe next week.
Oh goodness...what is going on? That's a story to tell the grandkids.
Hmmm...
Let us know how this one works out.
I have a stiff one right here, so I am not sure I totally understand what is going on. But I will check back for an update
Whew, now that's a messy one, will be interested to see how that all turns out.
Wow.....what ended up happening? That's nuts. Hopefully your client found a nice place. : )
Lenn - too funny. How many different combinations can we come up with? Lots and lots!
Sally - just telling my broker was funny enough. She was the one who came up with the descriptive term. Squatter Realtor suits this situation real well.
Tom - then both you and I are in a state of confusion right now. Thank goodness it's Friday though =)
Linda - she didn't ask me for the offending agent's info. Maybe the next time around?
Erica - I have some other properties to show her. We're keeping her options open. =)
I had a squatter in my Maryland condo; reminds me, I should do a post about it LOL. But I have never ever seen a squatter realtor sign! I vote for a peach smoothie and a quiet chair near chirping birds :-)
Carole - I'd love to read the tale! Everything's good blogging fodder =) The funny thing is that he still didn't get why I was concerned. HEL-O-OH??
Maggie
What can you say to that ....Have a virgin strawberry daquri on me!
Maggie, An owner can use one REALTOR(R) for listing "for sale" and another to list "for rent". There's nothing wrong with this. Of course it's up to the brokers whether or not they want to take a listing that is up for rent by another broker. These are two different services of RE and there is no conflict. Now using the other REALTORS(R) LB without their permission is a problem.
Oh Maggie...This business is pretty nutty at times! Let us know how you make out with this.
Maggie,
Please let us know the out come of this one! How about a root beer float...vanilla rum with diet root beer so good!!!! :)
Oh my gosh, from Ann Arbor this is weird. Keep us posted on how it unfolds. One reason I love the business, you just never know......
Maggie,
HUH? This one is too crazy to even think about. I can't imagine squatting on another agent's listing even if it was technically allowed. Using their lockbox code without permission? Crazy!
Better call the listing agent to share a good stiff drink. Happy hour might not be good enough, happy evening might be!!!
Aziz - naah, let's put the liquor in it!
Broker Bryant - all of us here know that you have much more experience than I in this field. That being said however, how many times do we actually see this happening? If I walk into my office with a lease listing on a property that is already listed for sale elsewhere I'll be sent back to explain to the landlord/seller why I can't possibly take the listing, with egg on my face. Apart from that, the listing agreement used by most brokers states that one of the responsibilities of the seller is to inform the broker of his/her intent to lease the property. This seller informed no one but Agent B of her intent. I wasn't bringing up the legality of the situation. Legal or not, you just don't see this happening. When was the last time you saw two different brokerage signs on a property? I must add, that you look lovely this evening. =)
Monika - I already know how I am going to make out on this. There's quite a few other properties that I called on. There's too many rentals in our market for me to waste time on one I'm not sure is going to happen. The tenant loved the house but already asked me to show her a few others while we wait on a reply.
Suzanne - hmmm, that does sound good! Are you suggesting I partake of empty calories? GASP!
Maggie, I'm shaking my head. This is so amazing and sad. Hmm...let us know how that one turns out and Good Luck!
Missy - even in Miami, this is weird. =) The listing agent didn't care for the news either. tee hee
Rita - as I laughed over this with my broker, she told me about 2 guys who scammed someone of $2,000 by getting a lockbox code and "renting" the fully furnished unit to unsuspecting tenants. This supposedly happened just recently here in the Miami area. They're still trying to figure out who the 2 were.
Chris - I'm waiting to hear from her. More to ease the curiosity than anything else. She didn't sound happy at all.
Stephanie - thanks for the good wishes. As long as I get her and her kids into a home, all's well that ends well. =)
well Maggie, I can help you out on the last line. I DO and I WILL for YOU tonight ;-0
seriously wacky person out there!
Hey Maggie,
I'm in agreement with BB on this one and he's absolutely correct. If fact to take it further, the seller could have multiple signs (even agent-company for sale signs) in the front yard. He could also have a real estate company sign on one side of the lawn and a FSBO sign on the other.
In the first case it could be an "open" listing, more than one agent. The second case could be an EA listing, exclusive agency. That's one where the seller also reserves the right to sell the property themselves, if they do, they do not pay the agent. I've seen both myself. First ime it was only after I called on a listing, drove out to the home to see more than one sign on the home. Then and only then did I look closer at my listing print out, I knew immediately what the situation was. Is it common? No actually it's fairly rare, yet it can happen.
I think all of our MLS's allow these types of listings, I'm sure it's in the NAR model rules & regs which allow a variety of different types of listings. Funny, but this is one thing I really try to cover in my newbie classes at our OAR. I'm one of the orientation (sort of like detention in h.s.) instructors.
Maggie - what a weird situation. The seller can use 2 different agencies for different things - for rent and for sale - but pretty slimy of the one agent to use the lockbox of the other to show and to suggest cutting her out of the picture. Yuk!!
Ann
Broker Lynda =) you and Broker Bryant get the gold crowns tonight. Again, whether this was wrong was never an issue. I've seen the FSBO/Agent signs several times and laughed at them. Who in their right mind would waste their time marketing a property when the Owner's phone number is prominently displayed on their lawn for all to see? The different listing agreements are not only available, they have cute little check boxes on the MLS input sheet. If I ever check anything other than ER, I'm either desperate or filling the form much too quickly. Our MLS is more concerned about compensation being offered to a cooperating broker. If there is none, it's not getting on the MLS and rightfully so. As far as the listing type? That's for the broker to mind. I can imagine you in detention with a ruler for our knuckles. Ouch! =)
oooops! Janie, I missed you! Very cute. Enjoy =)
Ann - the whole thing seems slimy. Regardless of whether it's allowed or not. I guess a customer in front of the house gets to choose eenie-meenie-miny-mo which agent to call.
Maggie, Maggie, Maggie.......
This ones on me
Maggie, I am looking forward to hearing the conclusion of this one. One of these two Realtors is not acting very ethically here.
ahhh, the weird and the unusual - It's Friday - makes me think of the Night Gallery with Rod Sterling (his folllow up to the Twilight Zone). It used to be on Friday night's - maybe we can have a weekly installment of the craziness every Friday. This busy is many thing s- but dull isn't one of them. I hope you rented the people something ;)
Maggie - I bet Agent A beat a path to happy hour too. Maybe you passed by each other! :)
Maggie Darlin' - It's always five o'clock somewhere!
I would need a drink too.... I always say that and settle for a soft drink instead :o) I have enough headaches in my life with out adding a hang over. :o) Let us know how it turns out
Maggie I am in this situation with one of my listings. I have it for sale and another company who only does property management has it for lease. First to table with an acceptable contract to the owner gets the deal. Difference is we both know what is going on. I have my lockbox on and she has a key.
Yes, even though this is legal and all that, what agent would want to do that! Why waste your time! Get a life! There is so much business out there those two agents should go get some! The sad thing is that is is a bad impression and lack of professionalism in front of a client! Shame on them! Katerina
Fran - even this early in the day (6AM), that looks refreshing! I hope you poured yourself one too.
George - you think? =D I'm counting on Agent B being the one.
Beth - I loved the TZ but never heard of the follow-up. "Picture if you will..." I'm working on the rental =)
Paula - she actually admitted that she was out fishing in the middle of the ocean. I guess if you're going to get bad news, its better if you're having fun?
Marlene - so true! I'll remember that next time =)
Thesa - those are good too. The bubblies tickle my nose. =)
Ashley - now that sounds fine to me. You're each aware of the other. Everything's disclosed and upfront. Good luck in that race!
Katerina - I think Agent B figured that was exactly what he was doing. LOL
Broker Maggie you too look lovely today:) In my market I see this quite frequently. In fact I've had listings that were vacant and difficult to sell where I referred the seller to a property manager to list it for rent as well. I kept it on the market for sale at the same time. We modified the listing agreement to state that if the property was rented out I would cancel the agreement. It was and I did. On other occasions I was able to sell it first. Why would I do this? Because it was in my sellers best interest to do so. The market is very difficult right and some houses will just not sell no matter what we do. An absentee owner can't just sit back and keep making mortgage payments. So we play both avenues at the same time. You will be seeing a lot of this in the near future.
BTW I will not list a tenant occupied property UNLESS it is a property that an investor would have an interest in. I choose not to do property management that why there may be two signs in the yard.
Maggie, I just needed to add that this is in no way an ethical violation. It has always been a very common way of doing business. It's just the last 5 or 6 years have been so busy that you didn't see this situation. But the market has changed, it's important for folks to understand that this is a normal function of RE. It is perfectly acceptable.
Maggie, I see where you are coming from and where BB is coming from too. Our company also has a PM dept. if the owner wants both signs up we at least have the same company name, just two phone numbers on 2 different signs and one hand usually knows what the other is doing. I too can't wait to find out what the listing agent finds out from the owner about the rental agent.
Maggie...
Damn. Blog Boy (Broker Bryant) beat me to telling you how we will be seeing much more of this. Nature of the beast with a market like ours.
The first time this happened to me I thought there was something going on but when I did my homework I found out the facts.
Sometimes everyone is not on the same page as a result of miscommunication or timing :)
TLW...ROAR!
Shame on the LA for using a lockbox if they knew about the sign. I would have a Supra-electronic box on that property in a heart beat, especially knowing that there is another agent in there somewhere.
Hope your pressure has resided Maggie :) I think you did good though. :))
Maggie, You started a war. LOL But a good one. I am so glad someone (you) discovered this. I truly believe we are always some where for a reason. You drove all the way, far from your office and found this property to help the listing agent. I hope they work it all out. You are the HERO.
I'm too tired to respond. Catch y'all tomorrow. Maybe even Monday. I do look lovely though. =)
In our MLS we don't have rental listings. It is something that the board is trying to determine. Our problem here is that there are ton's of property management companies in town because of the short-term rentals. Trying to figure out how to make it work.
When I first started my career in South Florida I worked for a company that had you do rentals first. I can remember one December I did all rentals, it was a lot of work but it paid the bills, no one in my office had a sale but I had money coming in from rentals.
I think people are so desparate now that you will see more and more of this.
As far as the rental company using the listing agent's code. Report them! That will be the end of that!
I see your frustration, if only everyone would work together and be honest, you would not have had to scrabble around to find out the inside story. Wasting all kinds of time....
and yet another vote for a more comprehensive supra system... OR ... just the education of the seller about the enforceability of a listing agreement
Lenn's comment "For Rent by Owner" is priceless. What nonsense this one is. The kind of thing that if happened here that gets a broker level call asap, and if not corrected, the next step after that. You can not have a relationship with a client to be put at risk from the ineptitude of another, and in this case "ineptitude" I think is being kind.
Also thanks for commenting on something we just did... it's our neighborhood updates again, all of them... and for checking out something cool. We did that for our static site a year ago and never really used it.
Cheers...
Maggie, that sounds like a big disaster. I hope it works out for you but it sounds like your client would be better off finding something new. Hope it works out for you.
oh my, I almost abandoned this post, didn't I? To the Tutas, yes, you're absolutely right. This market calls for thinking creatively and out of the box. I do agree that we will probably be seeing more "creative" scenarios in the future. I still do not agree with Agent B and the seller not informing Agent A. She shouldn't have to find this out from yet another agent.
Thanks to all of you for your comments. I do appreciate everyone's input.
This sounds like a CALGON NIGHT!!!
Susie - that's one of my favorite treats! A nice warm and fragrant bubblebath and some time to soak the thoughts away. ahhhhhhhh....I'm relaxing just thinking about it.
I would just check for sure who the LA is on MLS
oh my, Juan, I didn't mean to ignore your comment. Sorry! The MLS only had the sale listed. The rental was nowhere to be found. That's what prompted this whole thing.